Celine
Hey everyone, and welcome to resetting the table, expanding imagination around race, place and fate for our collective liberation. I'm Celine Chuang.
Trixie
I'm Trixie Ling
Maria
And I'm Maria Mulder, we host this podcast from traditional ancestral and unceded Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil Wauthuth territory, otherwise known as Vancouver, Canada. Acknowledging the land is one way we want to commit to decolonization and begin each episode in a good way, expressing solidarity with the indigenous struggle for rights, reparations, and sovereignty.
Celine
Today, we're talking birth and doula work, especially exploring Maria's knowledge and expertise in the field. What is doula work and why is it needed? How does birth work, complement, subvert and/or resist the healthcare system and the medical industrial complex. We're excited to talk to Maria about the embodied knowledge involved with birthing, and how dismantling taboos around birth and bodies can help us move closer to living fully liberated lives. Let's get into it.
Trixie
Yay, Maria. So excited to spotlight you on our episode today. And hear your brilliance.
Maria
I'm excited as well.
Celine
Today, Marie is both host and special guest. So I mean, should we ask our question that we normally ask special guests? Maybe?
Trixie
Yes, I think we should.
Celine
Maria, welcome to--no, haha. Welcome to the podcast that you are part of now. Yeah. How do you come today? And how do you arrive? Who are you? Who do you come as today? And how do you arrive to resetting the table?
Maria
Hmm, such a good question. I think today, I arrive as a slightly tired and overwhelmed full time student in the summer semester. But also, yeah, as like a very excited birth worker who's very excited to talk about birth and bodies and the medical industrial complex and kind of everything that comes with that world. Because I think in our society, a lot of things about birth and bodies are not talked about. And so people are either afraid or they just don't know how to be liberated in their bodies, just because it's not something that we're taught how to do.
Celine
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. We've talked about embodiment a little bit on the podcast before but definitely birth work and doula worker so. And birth I guess itself is like, uncompromisingly embodied, like you can't get away from the body. So I think it'll be really great to talk more in more detail with you about it. So maybe for people who, who might not know a lot or have never worked with a doula or birth worker before. Can you explain what is doula work? And what's the difference between like doula work and other forms of birth work? So what does your work kind of evolved as a doula?
Maria
So doulas are basically companions in a specific time in your life and so there are birth doulas who journey with you through your pregnancy and birthing experience and part of the postpartum period. There are postpartum doulas who focus more on kind of the fourth trimester, the actual postpartum period after you birth your baby. There are death doulas who walk with you as you approach your death. Yeah, there's kind of a whole spectrum there are abortion, doulas and fertility doulas, and you know, but basically we're companions who journey with people as they kind of like walk through a deeply transitional time in their life. And so birth doula specifically, what kind of separates us from other birth workers is that we're very clearly non medical support people. So we offer informational, physical and emotional support to birthing people and families. And we work kind of with whatever care providing team that the birthing person has chosen to have. So whether they've hired a midwife or an obstetrician or a doctor, and wherever they choose to birth their babies, we just kind of join the team. And we're an added added support person.
Trixie
It's so interesting learning so much from you, even the last couple days and weeks about your work around doula. Because I think I actually had some misconception myself about what a doula does. And I think my question, I thought, when you when you had a birth, I thought you actually delivered a baby, which you told me you that's not part of your role. But now hearing you say about, especially the way you frame it about as a companion, I was like, Wow, that is so much more powerful than just the person delivering the baby like that's a that's an important role, obviously, but more importantly, I think the continuous support you provide, especially the emotional support in this process, which I would love to actually hear a little bit more about. And the other piece I've been reading and learning and thinking about in preparing for this episode is also around advocacy, I understand that a part an important part actually of doula is for you advocating with and on behalf of the person you're working with. And that's an important role, especially because which I'm sure we'll get into people who've been focused particularly marginalized by the health care system and systemic racism, especially for queer and trans folks and people of color. And I know that piece for me, I'm a huge advocate for doing advocacy work on the ground. So I would love to hear more about that emotional support and advocacy work that you do and the role that is very important and do that work.
Maria
Oh, my goodness, Trixie so much, they're so much to talk about. So talking about kind of the emotional companionship side first. So that usually starts in the pregnancy. So when I have prenatal appointments with clients, a lot of the work that we do is kind of working through fears, desires, most important things to come into fruition during the birth things that are less important, and kind of sorting through the priorities that the birthing person has for their body and their birth. Because in our society, there's so much fear surrounding our bodies in general, but then especially pregnancy and childbirth, because it's just not something that's openly talked about. And if we look at the media, and the way that birth and pregnancy is portrayed in the media, like it's super inaccurate, one, like super, super inaccurate, and then too often, it's quite negatively portrayed, right? Like people are stressed out, they're screaming, like, goes from zero to 100, in a matter of minutes. And like, everything's out of control, and there's chaos everywhere. And that's just not actually how birth works most of the time. And so a lot of my work in kind of like the prenatal stages is really helping my clients to articulate their fears in a safe space that is open and listening to them. And then really holding those fears with them, and then working through them. And for different people, sometimes it's just sitting with a mantra every day, like, my body is capable of birthing my baby. And so really just sitting with that truth every single day in your pregnancy, but for other people, it's more informational. Like they want to see the statistics and the evidence and the studies. And so my job also would then be to get those resources to them so that they can educate themselves and feel empowered with the decisions that they make. Should I keep going?
Trixie
Yes, I was gonna say because one of the things I as I think about and how particularly affecting your role so important for those who are again, facing marginalization in the system is about making having the agency right to make decision about their own body. And then their baby and so I love to kind of hear even a little bit more about the important role of doulas, especially for people of color, and queer and trans folks like that's an important piece. Because often in the system, they maybe don't get all the accurate information don't get all the access, there's so much racial disparity especially. So I'd love to kind of hear your thoughts, but even maybe a story or personal experience with that, I think that would be really helpful for myself and others to kind of deeply understand the powerful work that you do.
Maria
Mm hmm. So this is kind of a newer, I don't want to say newer, it has resurfaced as a topic of conversation in the birth work world. Because when I was being trained, so like four or five years ago, a lot of the rhetoric that was used in doula trainings was like my role as a doula is to help my client advocate for themself. And what we're realizing now, as we kind of like, take apart our trainings and decolonize the trainings that we've had is a lot of us are realizing that that statement of helping someone to advocate for themselves comes with the assumption that self advocacy will be recognized in whatever system you're advocating yourself for. So if we're talking about the medical industrial complex, the assumption then would be that, like your client is white. And when they advocate for themselves within the medical industrial complex, that advocacy will be taken seriously, and they will be heard and listened to and respected for whatever choices they make. But that's just not true for people of color. And for queer folk. Right. And so, a lot of birth work is actually it is quite political and quite activist in that a lot of us now are realizing we are stepping into these roles as liaisons between medical care providers and clients. And we're also like really active advocates in some cases where sometimes people are just not listened to, or they're not seen in the same way that a white patient would be seen. And so in those cases, like health and death are on the line and so our jobs would then be to speak up and not not to tell our clients like 'you need to be advocating for yourself' But to step into that role ourselves and to say, like, Hey, this is funky, don't feel good about this, or like to question a doctor being like, oh, did you get consent for that? Like, did you have a conversation with my client about the risks and the benefits of what you're about to do? All of those kinds of questions. So, yeah, I know that that's kind of vague. But the general idea is, advocacy work is not just supporting someone as they advocate for themselves. But but sometimes and often, especially when there are queer clients and clients who are POCs it's a much more active role that we take,.
Trixie
huh?
Trixie
Thank you, Maria. I'm just I, I feel just grateful to have you as a advocate in the system and all the work that you're doing.
Celine
Yeah, I think people are really can learn from to like thinking about your wisdom, and just like what you're sharing. I know a lot of folks who are marginalized by the healthcare system, have many stories about whether it's systemic racism, or colonialism, like, or heterosexism. Like all the things. But I think that really comes out when we think about birth. Yeah, because I guess it's so gendered in the healthcare system, right. And so maybe you can talk more to about how your work as a doula is also about advocacy. And also, inclusion isn't the right word, but expanding kind of these these definitions of like, even what a birthing body is, or like, how language is really important when talking about birth? And kind of like how making room for queer and trans experiences of birth, which are not at all, centered in the general like dominant, you know, representations of birth or in the healthcare system, like very much the default is, like with many things, right, just like cis straight white. Yeah. So maybe you want to expand on that a little?
Maria
Yeah, I think, I mean, it's really, really challenging thing, because a lot of the language that we use, like we don't actually have gender neutral, good, gender neutral alternatives for a lot of the language that is used. But we're getting there, like, slowly but surely, different terms are being replaced by by better, more inclusive terms. But yeah, I think I actually just wrote a post about this about kind of gender inclusive language in birthwork. And how there's a lot of kind of transphobic discourse on the internet about how people are concerned with the use of gender inclusive language, because they feel like they're talking about cis women in particular, they're, they're worried that by using gender inclusive language, their own womanhood and their identities as women comes into question. So like, when when people are using terms like birthing person, instead of mother, or parental leave, instead of maternity leave, things like that. And it's just not true. Like, what we're doing is we're expanding the world so that everyone fits in.
Celine
We talked about this before a little bit to you, right? How even that's then freeing for everyone, right? It's not like something has been taken away, because so many women would be like, I'm not, birth is not something that is part of my identity, and I don't want to be, you know, for people who identify as women like their identity is not going to be everyone is going to have their own experiences of like their bodies and birth and being a mother or a parent like, so expanding that language is actually freeing, right? It's the opposite of whatever. I don't know what the language is to use. But clearly the link, the response there is around I think it's a form of transphobia. But there's, there's fear involved, maybe and like having that openness, really playing into the gender binary again.
Maria
Yeah, I think. So it does a couple of things. So first of all, gendered language, does a couple of things. it excludes a whole population of people who are also experiencing pregnancy and birth and postpartum. And it also limits people's ideas of themselves. And it creates a lot of harm for a lot of people. So like, if in our society, pregnancy and birth and postpartum are only ever attached to the idea of cisgendered, womanhood, then what happens is people who struggle with infertility, people who don't identify with motherhood or want to be mothers, like, instead of those realities being neutral, they are inherently connected to some sort of shame or exclusivity. Exactly. So when we use gender neutral language, we're not only making space for marginalized populations that used to not be able to fit into the gendered language, but we're also freeing people to like expand their own ideas of themselves, so that they're not just tied to this like one thing that their body can do, which is an amazing thing that their body can do. But like, it's not the only thing. You know? So part of my work as a doula is to like really encourage people to use gender neutral language, even with my clients who I know are cisgendered women, I still use gender neutral language in our prenatals. And when we're talking because it's just a good, it's a good way of practicing inclusive language. And then in turn, hopefully, eventually, the medical industrial complex also catches on to the trend of inclusive language, and then the whole system ends up being safer for everyone.
Trixie
Thank you, Maria, for sharing those really thoughtful perspectives, I guess, as you're talking, I'm interested in as a way you use gender neutral language, particularly with your clients and your particularly cisgender folks that you work with, I was wondering, what are their reaction to you using this language? Because I think a lot of that is also this process of education, right? And living into what you believe and embodying that? Is there any resistance, does iths open more space in dialogue for them, to educate themselves, and then to continue having these conversation with their friends? Like, I mean, just because I think this is so powerful, the work you're doing, and the ripple and impact that you're making, in this space. So important. So yeah, I woul love to hear thoughts around that.
Maria
So I think I've definitely had clients that have, one of the key factors for why they hired me is because of my use of gender neutral language. So I think for some people, it's really, really important in their own lives and practices. And that's becoming more and more, which is awesome. And then for other people it like, doesn't usually like people don't bat an eye. If there's a specific term that they are wanting to use for themselves, then like, obviously, I will happily use that term. So for instance, using the term breastfeeding instead of chest feeding, a lot of cis moms really identify with the term breastfeeding. And so like, of course, we would use that term, but in general, like at the beginning, everything is neutral, until otherwise specified or desired. But generally, like, there hasn't been any resistance, really anything is we just notice in the medical industrial complex, there's there's so much gendered language that is just part of the norm of how nurses and doctors operate. And so that's kind of where maybe resistance is not the right word. But there's, there's like a disconnect between the way that doulas function with our clients and then the way that the medical industrial complex then meets us.
Celine
I think it's really powerful to how doula work, and birth work more largely as this reclaimative, decolonial, I would say approach to birth work and to wellness even like and to bodies, understanding bodies and health. Because if we think about it, like doula work, wasn't called doula work before. But before the medical industrial complex before, the health care system, as we know it today, like the process of accompanying someone to give birth was very relational, right. And often, that knowledge was held as sacred. So there was, I don't know, just thinking about that being a form of returning to often like ancestral or decolonial, pre colonial knowledge of bodies and of birth as being this powerful act, and how that's been, really what you're doing to through your work is returning to that knowledge and kind of inviting people into something. What was kind of good and relational and connected to a community? Thinking of birth? I mean, rather than delivering a baby to, you know, a hospital, and that's what birth is. Yeah, I remember you had a tote with the, like, decolonize birth work. I remember being so excited when I saw that because I was like, Yeah, like, because I know that you had been, I think, a birth worker, slash learning about birth work for a long time. But to see you like making the political connection too I think, what's really exciting for me? Yeah, but yeah, if you want to talk more about that, too.
Maria
Yeah, I think, um, it definitely, I mean, it's a whole big conversation in the birth world, right. Like whether birth work is actually political, or not, like some of us are like, absolutely it is, if you're working adjacent to or in the medical industrial complex. Your work is political, like whether you think it is or not, but I think a lot of what I do as a birth worker, it's not even it's not just a return to the relational aspects of birth, but what I'm really doing is I'm inviting people to return to their bodies in a way that our society doesn't invite them to do. And then in doing that, folks realize like, wow, like, giving birth is this radical it can be this radical act of resistance against like multiple systems if you want it to, and it can be this deeply empowering, connecting, embodied, transformative experience, right. But it can't be all of those wonderful things, unless there is a community and people around you who can support you, in doing that work for yourself, right, because our society is not set up to invite people into transformative birth experiences, that's just not the way it works. And so that's one of the things that I love the most about doula work is like, I get to invite people to be with their bodies, and to sit with their hopes and their dreams, and, and then to, like, do the work to empower themselves to like, do this amazing thing that their bodies were made to do.
Celine
And then that carries beyond birth, right? It's like, you're kind of bringing all those, I don't wanna say tools, because that's too. It's not just like something that has to be done. I mean, like, I guess, I've been thinking of resume Americans analogy, not just like a toolbox for things, ways to equip yourself, but also like, a toybox. So like the idea of play as well. So I'm trying to move towards that in my language, but you're equipping people with toys with tools to better learn and like return to get to know like, their embodied knowledge and their embodied wisdom, through birth, but that would, you know, again, have a ripple effect. Like Trixie said it would then kind of begin a different kind of relationship with our bodies. So powerful.
Maria
Yeah. And it totally flows into parenthood. Right? What a lot of people don't talk about is that if you do have birth trauma, which a lot of people do giving birth in the medical industrial complex, like, if you go into Parenthood, with birth trauma, there's so much extra unpacking that you have to do, in addition to the fact that you have this new human that you have to take care of. Right. And so if you can have an empowered birth, that where you feel control, in control, and supported and just like really positive about your birth experience, it's like one extra piece of luggage that you don't have to carry into parenthood with you. Yeah, which I think a lot of people, they don't realize how heavy that baggage can be.
Trixie
And this is why you need community, right? You need also community to process and to hold those baggage and to heal from that. And I love that just as you were talking just for me when making those connections, like I'm not a mother myself. And so just thinking about the individual experience, which is why I've been often hear and see and watch. But connecting that to the greater community impact, and also the system work that really what you're doing in your advocacy work in your education. And I love actually I know, we said it a few times. But for those who are maybe newer to the medical industrial complex, which I know can be its own topic itself, lots to talk about but I was just wondering, just in terms of helping us to unpack more, because this is so this is like revolutionary, like thinking about the work that you do and how it's so tied into dismantling white supremacy and colonization. So can you share with us just a little bit more about this? And I'm sure, we can talk a lot more later on too.
Trixie
Mm hmm.
Maria
So the medical industrial complex, I will now get on my soapbox. And okay, so for people who don't know, the medical industrial complex is basically the bio, the western biomedical healthcare system that we function in. So it's hospitals, clinics, doctors, med school, surgery, all of that stuff is kind of in this complex. And it's something that we're very used to, and that is very normalized in our society, right? Like, if you're really, really sick, you go to a hospital, if an emergency happens, you call an ambulance. Like it's just totally normal. But what people don't often realize is that the medical industrial complex as a system is deeply racist. It's deeply white supremacist, and it's deeply patriarchal. And those threads, it's basically the foundation of the entire system, right? So even if we just look at obstetrics and gynecology, OBGYNs didn't really exist until the 50s ish. It wasn't a regular thing, right, like birth happened in the home still, midwives were a normal part of the community. It was community care model, continuous care model. But in the 50s, and onwards, maybe even like the 40s, birth started to move into hospitals for various reasons, right? Like people were learning different ways to help babies be born. There were new technologies, there were new medications, all of these things, but they all were in the hospital. And so slowly, folks were encouraged to go to the hospital to have their babies instead of to be in their communities in their homes, birthing their babies. And this would have all been fine and good, except that the hospital doesn't actually protect and serve everyone equally. It's not a neutral system. Like most of the systems that we encountered today, right? And so particularly in North America, black folk, indigenous folk, there are great disparities in health care outcomes and birth outcomes for those communities. Yeah, like queer and trans folks, also huge disparities in quality of care that are given. And this is because the system itself was built on this white supremacist idea that white bodies are the most valuable. And if your body is not white, you are inherently less valuable than the patient next to you. Yeah. And it has roots it goes way back, right, like, experimentation with slaves.
Celine
Less recently, like the, the sterilization of Indigenous women.
Maria
Yeah. And like, there are so many stories and documents of black women slaves, being experimented on by doctors, in the name of Obstetrics and Gynecology, without anesthesia without pain medication. It's just like, truly, truly horrific. There's a horrific history in obstetrics and gynecology, and people don't realize that that history is deeply racialized, inherently racialized, and how those beliefs are carried through, right, so like, even though experimentation is not happening anymore, the roots of what did happen, that trauma is carried through the system and still affects people every day.
Celine
Yep, it feels like it's people are more aware perhaps of things like the prison industrial complex, or like, the systems that we know cause overt violence and harm, like connecting that to white supremacy and colonialism. But we don't think perhaps we don't think as much about the systems that we see. Or we can often perceive as or talk about as normal, so called normal or like care, providing systems that are also historically right, the arm of these violent extractive systems and ideologies like white supremacy and colonialism. And the medical industrial complex, I think, also how that's connected to like social work, you know, like how these systems are also have been weaponized against black and indigenous people and people of color, queer and trans people for the entirety of their existence. And so even if it's less overt now, that's still part of how it operates.
Maria
Yeah, absolutely. And it still happens, right? So even in studies that are coming out, and new statistics, everything like that, often, what is not seen is kind of like a diversity panel of like, who was actually part of the study, like how many BIPOC folks were actually part of this new statistic that has been released. And what we find a lot of the time is that studies are still majority white participants, which means that there's a huge disparity in knowledge, right? Like, we can't just make generalizations based on one population for the entire population in North America. But that's what's being done in the medical industrial complex constantly. Yeah, yeah.
Celine
I think when you put it like that, to when we when we start to unpack this, it's like, how can birth would not be political. I mean, everything Everything is and can be political, when we think about how there's no neutral system, and there's no neutral way of engaging with other people, because the systems of power. But yeah, I think it makes it even more important the work that you're doing, I think, thinking about how it is politicized work, and how you're gonna constantly be running up against these, what's normalized, or seen as neutral, but are kind of in line with these oppressive histories and systems. And I think it sounds like what part of what your work is as a doula is both empowering, educating, equipping, like, accompanying but also the work of dismantling those, those norms and those systems from kind of your place adjacent to interwoven with, you know, the medical industrial complex. So I can see how you're kind of applying abolitionist frameworks to the healthcare system and the medical industrial complex in a way that's like, what are radical alternatives that we can already start to live out, and then transform, you know, the way that we relate to these systems and the systems themselves? I would love if you wanted to talk more about, like, you talked a little bit about how birth is this amazing embodied process and maybe some things that you find really, that people might not know, perhaps like, that are involved with birthing and bodies that you just like love or are passionate about that you love to, to see or to share in?
Maria
Oh, my goodness, where to even begin? There's so many amazing things. Yeah, there are just so many amazing things about our bodies when it comes to birth. So I'm I'm a total placenta nerd. I think placentas are amazing. I love it when clients want tours of their placentas? Like I just, they're just fascinating. So I just think that it's totally amazing that our bodies will grow an entire organ, quite a large organ to sustain life during gestation. And then as soon as that life has exited, and is like a separate part out in the world, the organ like just comes out, and your body's done with it and like, doesn't have any use for it anymore. And I just, oh placentas, they're just so cool. And they're huge. Like, I think people don't realize how big of an organ placentas are. They're like this amazing, like muscular, really, really complicated organ. It just does so much. And yet, it's an afterthought, right, like it was called the afterbirth for so long, because it was just like this thing that came out after the baby was born. Yeah, so placentas are cool.
Trixie
Wow.
Maria
I also am a huge like, just physiologically, I think it's amazing. All of the things that our bodies do in birth, like even if we just talk about our cervixes like so if you are a person with a cervix, it's like this kind of hard spongy disk that's about four centimeters long. And it separates the vagina from the uterus. And it goes through this amazing change throughout the labor. It goes from this kind of hard Puck to this like squishy, soft, stretchable membrane that eventually like completely disappears and gets out of the way. And then after the baby's born, it like, goes back to its original shape. And it like goes back to its original function. And it's just wild. Our bodies are wild. I feel like I could go on for like, a really, really long time. But yeah, placentas and cervixes.Yeah. I could talk about them forever.
Trixie
Yeah, that sound like a miracle just like the way you describe and how it shapes and how it changes how they transform and just know what it does. Right? It know, its purpose and its function. That's incredible.
Maria
Yeah. And I think like in our society, people are not, we're not taught to trust our bodies, right. So like, as a doula or anyone who's in kind of like the health care professional who knows about the physiology of birth. It is freakin amazing. Like, there are so many things that our body does throughout the pregnancy, and then also just in labor and delivery. And it's so deeply complex, and yet our bodies are designed to do it, right. And so I think it's so important, like if you're pregnant, learn about the physiology of childbirth and be amazed and like, be able to learn to trust your body, right? Like your cervix is going to do what it needs to do. your uterus is going to do what it needs to do. Your baby knows how to be birthed, like your body knows how to birth your baby, like all of these things. Yeah, there's like so much space for trust that is not filled, because of the limitations that our societal beliefs put on us and our relationship with our bodies.
Trixie
I think probably shame and fear, right? Those two also, like prevents even having this conversation right now like talking about the body in such detailed, beautiful, incredible ways. Like there's just not that knowledge. And without that there's just, at least for me, there's just like, a lot of the unknowns and fear. And so to even crease base, and for it, because we say this, this whole process birthwork is a community. It's a community response to like, how do we actually support people going through this journey, is to actually educate ourselves. So we can talk about it too, and learn and, and celebrate, and trust in our bodies, as you just mentioned. That's so important.
Maria
Yeah, I also think that they're like, maybe even needs to be a paradigm shift, right? Because I think that our society, the unknown, is inherently scary. And I just don't think that that has to be true, right? Like, because honestly, like, I've never given birth. There's a lot of it that is still unknown to me, right. Like, I don't know what contractions feel like, I have no idea about the actual, like sensations of giving birth. And so for first time gestational parents, that is the reality, right, like they haven't experienced it, they have no real idea about what it's going to be like. And for a lot of people, I think the emotional connection is going to be afraid of that unknown, when really, like, why can't we be open and curious about it instead? Like, why can't we just hold the unknown and be like, yep, I have no idea what it's gonna feel like. And that's totally okay. I can still trust my body to do what it needs to do. And I can trust my support team, and my medical care provider, and my partner if I have one, like I can trust all of these people to hold me as I go through this really intense thing that I've never experienced before.
Trixie
I want you to be my doula if I, if I'm ever in that position.
Maria
Maybe one day?
Maria
I think a lot of it has to do with exposure. So social media is and so I joined social media very recently, it's been kind of mind blowing, kind of like all the stuff that's out there. But one thing that I've realized is there's there's are so many videos out there of people having amazing, physiologic, undisturbed births in the world. And so if that's something that you're interested in, doing with your body, if you're pregnant, or thinking about being pregnant, like, look up the videos, watch the videos, watch other people be empowered with their bodies. Because the more you watch that the more that is normalized for yourself, right? And it goes the same with just bodies in general, right? I think our society has a huge fat phobia and fat shaming. And I was listening to a podcast episode, a Witch, Please episode, and one of the hosts Hannah McGregor, she was talking about how, in order to get over her own, like internalized fat phobia, she just had to look at a whole bunch of images of fat bodies until she didn't bat an eye anymore. And I just love that I'm like, yeah, if you have an issue with something, run towards it, don't run away from it, like expose yourself to it so that it becomes this normalized, beautiful, amazing thing that you can then internalize with your own relationship with your body.
Trixie
I love that run towards an issue instead being afraid or feel ashamed you run to it with curiosity with imagination. And out of that there is like the sense of joy right of knowing more about yourself and the and the people around you. Wow, thank you so much, Maria, for sharing that. We will love to hear more about where we can find you. In addition to obviously being on this podcast and you know, we we love to continue hearing your words of wisdom and brilliance in the work you do and particularly around doula so where can we find you as we run toward those videos and learning more about our body?
Maria
Yeah, so as mentioned, I like joined Instagram not too long ago. Um, so you can find me on Instagram @selah.doulaservices, s e l a h dot doula services. And there like, I I post a lot of rants about different things about the medical industrial complex, but I also like, do a lot of reposting of birth videos and things. So there's like, lots of stuff to discover there. And then my like actual doula work website is mariabirthdoula.wordpress.com. And then there you can find more information about me and my work and I think that's it.
Celine
Do you want to plug any people who have kind of taught you or helped you kind of learn and become who you are as a doula as well, or we can also show up.
Maria
Yeah, so I'll plug a couple of podcasts and a couple of Instagram birth workers. So there's a podcast called The Midwives Cauldron. And it's really, really great. It's these two British midwives who are just super affirming and trusting of birthing bodies, and they just answer questions, and they're hilarious. And yeah, so it's definitely like, if you have fear to work through they're really great voices to listen to. And there's also a podcast called The Black Doula. And The Black Doula. She's also on Instagram. And she does lots of really amazing, kind of like decolonial anti MIC work, which is really great. And then there's also a midwife in Alabama that I really love. Her name is Dr. Stephanie Mitchell. And she is in the process of building Alabama's first freestanding, black owned, well, first freestanding birthing center in general. And it's also a black owned birthing center. And she also just released a book. So she's doing a lot of work about kind of like making birthing a safe, empowered experience for all bodies outside of the medical industrial complex. Yeah, thank you for sharing with us. So many powerful resources and people that we need to read more and learn more and run to work to so thank you for that. And thank you for embodying what you believe and, and sharing your gifts with the world. Thank you. Thank you for letting me talk a lot.
Maria
Stand on my soapbox.
Trixie
Yeah, I appreciate it. We love your soapbox.
Celine
I don't know if we've mentioned it before, but that was one of the the possible titles for our way back when we when we were still Just dating or what stage
Maria
like just being conceived Yeah, okay. Yeah.
Celine
Well thanks Maria. We love hearing your yeah embodied knowledge experience wisdom brilliance. More to come.
Maria
Resetting the table is produced by Mr. vanarts. And the intro music is by Sonia and Paul Gibbs. If you like this podcast, consider supporting us on patreon@patreon.com slash resetting the table. We think it's really important to amplify voices of color, and we hope you do too. Even the little bit helps us sustain the podcast.
Celine
Big thanks to everyone who's already part of the Patreon community. We love you and appreciate your support.
Trixie
We love to hear from you. So please leave us a message anchor.fm/resettingthetable or leave us a review on Apple podcasts so others can also find the show. You can find us on Instagram @re.settingthetable.
Maria
For now, do xia.
Trixie
Xie xie.
Celine
Thanks and see you soon.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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