Trixie 0:05
Hey everyone, and welcome to Resetting The Table: expanding imagination around race, place, and faith for our collective liberation.
I'm Trixie Ling,
Celine 0:22
and I'm Celine Chuang. We host this podcast from traditional, ancestral, and unceded Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil Wauthuth territory, otherwise known as Vancouver, Canada. Acknowledging the land is one way we want to commit to decolonization and begin each episode in a good way, expressing solidarity with the indigenous struggle for rights, reparations, and sovereignty.
Trixie 0:45
Today, we're talking about food! One of my favorite topics. We're really excited to talk about food, especially in its connection to cultural reclamation, community bridge building, also as well as how food relates to race and power. And like all the other big themes that we have covered the season, we're entering into this conversation as a starting point and we'll definitely plan to expand on it further on. Let's get into it!
Celine 1:11
Have you eaten? Let's jump right in. Have you eaten?
Trixie 1:15
You know, I did just eat some porridge before I jumped on this call, late breakfast because I was also baking a cake at the same time. So I was actually multitasking house baking and eating.
Celine 1:30
And by porridge, do you mean like white people porridge or like congee?
Trixie 1:35
Oh, good call. Good call. I feel like you just called me out. But...
Celine 1:39
No, I'm not! No, in a good way!
Trixie 1:42
Definitely. I mean, this is a great question because when I think about porridge, actually, it's like I just...
Celine 1:47
Like oatmeal? Okay.
Trixie 1:48
Yeah. But now I'm like no porridge is like congee!
Celine 1:53
I think people say rice porridge for country to, to specify. But... yeah.
Trixie 1:59
Yeah. It's really good to actually think deeper, which I'm sure we'll get more into about food and language. But have you eaten, Celine?
Celine 2:08
I have not actually eaten yet. Yeah, that's okay though, this conversation will nourish me. And then I will eat afterwards. In spirit, I will say I've been nourished recently by the dumplings you gave me... from Chinatown? And I was very happy; I've been using my bamboo steamer to like, usually I just use it to hold garlic and ginger because then it gets like air circulation, but it doesn't mold and stuff. Which I can't remember where I found that tip, but... But I actually used it as a steamer for the dumplings! And I was very pleased.
Trixie 2:44
Oh, yay. Yeah, the soup dumplings. So good, hey?
Celine 2:48
Yeah.
Trixie 2:49
That is definitely very nourishing. Brings brings me back to Taiwan. And yeah, and us eating together. But before I jump back into all the memories, we, we're we're both like, excited, but also sad that Maria can't speak today because she lost her voice. So I was gonna say, "Maria, have eaten"? We're hosting this on Zoom. So the perks of hosting this on Zoom is that Maria still is in the room with us today, and, even though she lost her voice, she will be chatting away! And we'll definitely say the things that she mentioned on the chat and just yeah, have her be part of this conversation. So with that, Maria, have you eaten? For those who can't see, Maria smiling right now and she's trying to think about it.
Celine 3:45
Maria has eaten lasagna for breakfast
Trixie 3:48
Lasagna? Wow! That is kicking it up a notch here. Yeah, it's interesting, Celine and Maria, I think, when we talked about this, and just as a greeting, right? "Have you eaten", it's actually something that is newer for me, something that I've learned the last couple years as I continue my journey of reclaiming my own culture and identity as a, as a Taiwanese settler here. And it's something that I think someone told me, I can't remember who, but someone told me, "Oh, yeah, this is how you greet each other" when I was in Taiwan. And I'm like, really? Because no one has actually said that to me before. And so I think for me, kind of the "aha!" moment and, is when I remember distinctly, I was visiting my aunt in Taipei, Taiwan. And in this apartment building, it's in the morning, I got into the elevator ready to go get my egg pancake for breakfast, and then this po po, just, you know, stepped into the elevator with me. And I looked at her, I kind of did a little like bow and acknowlegement and say hi, as I would as a Westerner, I feel like. And she looks at me and she said, "Have you eaten?" And I was like, "Oh!" I was almost kind of shocked because I wasn't like ready for it. But then it just felt like such love and care. And she obviously doesn't know me I was a complete stranger. But that was just like smile and expression of like, "Oh, I want to know how you're doing". And, and I told her that I was actually just going downstairs to the corner to get some egg pancake. And then she was so happy that, knowing that I was going to eat breakfast soon. So yeah, that kind of, just, little moments, I think, was just really special for showing me really how that expression sounds like so simple, but there's so much like deep care and thought and relationship into that question. And also intergenerationally that, for me, that was a big piece of my own journey of trying to connect and learn from my elders, and so having this po po ask me "have you eaten?", that was like a real special moment and connection for me. And yeah, that expression of love and care for our body, like are we nourished?
Celine 5:59
So I'm curious, like, did she ask in English, or?
Trixie 6:02
No, definitely, she asked in Mandarin!
Celine 6:05
Like, I've never heard that in English. Usually it's in... yeah. Like, Mandarin or Cantonese or whatever. The language part is so important in it, or sorry, is such an important way that it's communicated. Like it actually, the phrase is the greeting, right?
Trixie 6:19
Yes.
Celine 6:19
I think that's true for Korean as well and other Asian languages? I could be wrong about like which ones, but it's very much part of how you acknowledge each other and greet one another in extent? Yeah.
Trixie 6:33
Mm hmm. Yeah, I think part of that, and kind of talking about the language piece, because it's something I'm still learning like I'm just conversationally practicing Mandarin. And so I think even just the ability to say in a different language, it just, it brings so many different meanings, I think, especially when I think about food and in, at least, Taiwanese culture. It's been a couple years since I was back, but one of the big things that struck me and, even in this greeting, is that food is so central to who we are and, particularly to Taiwanese culture and Taiwanese history, that a lot of our conversation is centering around food. Like when I'm with my aunt and cousin, most of the time, it's like, you know, we're eating breakfast, and there'll be like, "what are we eating for lunch"? And then like, you're planning dinner already. And you try to figure out, which is the place you're eating and who's coming along to eat with you? Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of connection that is centering around food that is an expression of, again, love and care for each other.
Celine 7:41
Yeah, Maria's commenting here that these greetings are a beautiful way of connecting back to feeding as a way of loving, so.... and feasting together, being together, and nourishing each other, in more ways than just nutrition. So the idea of, and that's true, like, I love the, the concept, the practice of feasting, like of a Chinese banquet, or of like, a big table, and how that's so much more than like what the food you're actually physically... I mean, it is also about how delicious the food is, but it's also the relationships. And those are very multifaceted relationships, right? And like, just thinking of how a table at a Chinese banquet, for example, like, you serve the people next to you before you serve yourself, right? And especially if you're with elders, you would serve them first. And there are all these different systems and networks of relationships that are involved with how we serve one another food and eat food together. Yeah, and that's all reflected in the practice of feasting. And so it's about kind of relationship, about honor, yeah, about family.
Trixie 8:43
Mm hmm. About values, right? About rituals. I think of even I mean, just now when you said that, like serving the other person. That's totally true. I think that's something that really struck me around, like what, what hospitality really looked like. A lot of time is like when I'm, when I was in Taiwan sitting around the round table I, because I'm like the youngest, you know, everyone just put food on my plate. And that's how they show the love and care, like they really want to nourish you. And, and I think that expression, and Maria also says here that feeding is a way of loving. I think that's something that it's, it's, it's really special because, you know, I didn't grow up in a family that really say the words "I love you". And I think as I'm older now, I feel like understanding more of my own culture, I realized that is the expression. So instead of saying "I love you", perhaps it's like, "here, eat some more". And that's, that's, that's the way how, yeah, people really care for our bodies, our relationship with each other. And maybe that's how like both, if, if I think about like, friends and family structure are also really built on is around this table.
Celine 9:58
Mm hmm. Yeah, and I think the fun, the fun, but sometimes difficult part of you know, reclaiming particular cultures, especially as like "hyphenated" people or like people living between two cultures or with many, like doing that work, you get to kind of choose and find the people around you to choose like the good and life giving-things that are part of the cultures you're reclaiming. And also, you can, we can leave things that we don't think are life-giving, right? Like I'm thinking of, yes, food as a way to show love. And like how my grandma would always say, she grew up, she lived most of her life in *. So she would use the French and say, "manger, manger!" like, constantly when we were visiting her. And that was like the imperative, right? It's like, "eat, eat", it's not like, "would you like some more?", just "eat, eat"! So that part, you know, I love and I love that memory of her and I think I seek to continue, you know, the practice of feeding people. And also, it's a very, like, I know, in like Chinese culture, there's a lot of body shaming, right, there's like, around fat, fatness, or like... you know, it's like, they feed you, and then they shame you for, you know, if you're bigger than, you know, what the perceived ideal is. So, for me, it's like, oh, yeah, cultural reclamation is this ongoing process of like, yeah, cultivating those good practices, and reclaiming those practices, and, and also being like, we don't have to take it all, you know? Like, we can also learn ways to be hospitable and generous that are from that tradition and also, and also are new in some ways, or new ways of, or maybe old ways. But you know, that are different.
Trixie 11:30
Mm hmm. Yeah, that makes me think ,I know, earlier, Maria, this is something that you were int- are jnterested in talking more about this moralization of food and food, you know, being given labels, like "good" or "bad", or "healthy" or "unhealthy". And that really, you know, really confines and I think really complicates and challenges our relationship with food. And so... and body, you know, food and body, and when we use those labels, and, and that kind of just reminds me, Celine, when you just said that, because for sure, when I was in Taiwan, I was, even though I was eating a lot, I was also very self conscious, because I was told like, "oh, you're getting too fat". And, even though they're like feeding me a lot of food, so I, it feels really challenging to kind of hold attention of talking about food, but, and then how it relates to our body. And so that, that, you know, what you said was really helpful to kind of think about, yeah, how do we, how do we hold those tensions, and the stereotypes that sometimes can really alienate each other? And that disconnect?
Celine 12:39
I think a good question that's just being formulated in my head is, or that's rising up in me, not just in my mind, but in my whole embodied self. Trying to practice acknowledging more than just mind and thoughts is, yeah, what moves? And this is like a question for both reclaiming cultural foods and cultural traditions. And also, in general, I would say for myself, like, I'm thinking, what, what, what moves me towards celebration, what move, what moves me towards joy, and away from shame? So, you know, and for cultural foods or cultural food practices, like I'm not interested in the body shaming and like, the shaming of when you do something wrong, when you don't fulfill a particular role in the way that you're supposed to... Like, I want to move towards the part that's like, yes, celebration, nourishment, networks of relationships. Yeah. So, and if we, if you apply that to what you were saying, like, there is a lot of shaming and, and how we moralize different types of food, right? So like, when we make that judgment call, we're saying that someone is less than because of, you know, their choices around food or a particular food, which is racialized, is connected to a particular group of people, right?
Trixie 13:54
Mm hmm. Yeah. And Maria here, we're just gonna read what she said. This is what she was saying, she has a voice, you know, kind of connecting to how moralized labels are really connected to colonization and racism. And for instance, nutritionally, kale is cooked in coconut oil as similar to collard greens that's cooked in lard, but the latter is viewed as more like unacceptable and unhealthy and all these negative stereotypes because of its root in southern Black food culture.
Celine 14:24
Yes, totally. And it's also, I would add that it's who's cooking it or how it's being branded, right? So it's like, you know, a white celebrity chef appropriates collard greens and lard or like collard greens and * or whatever the hip, cool thing is... and like rebrand it as like, you know, this like farm-to-table, fancy, boujee restaurant, whatever, like, that's where it's served, then it will be elevated. It will be like, oh, this is high cuisine. Like, this is like amazing what they're doing, you know. So it's about like, who has... its gatekeeping, in a way, and also about appropriation in terms of like who gets to decide what food is "elevated" and what food is kind of like "denigrated" or, or "bad", like "bad" with quotation marks, right?
Trixie 15:08
Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, oh man, there's so many things I want to say about cultural appropriation of food. But one of the things that you know, and I think just kind of following up on what we said, I've been watching the show called "High on the Hog", and it's based on the book by an incredible food historian, Dr. Jessica B. Harris. I've only watched two of the four episodes, and it really shows the stories about the food of African-American table and its relationship to it's Black history. And watching the show has been so incredible in terms of, for me, learning more of like, you know, even the different ingredients that we just talked about, you know, collard greens, it has, it talks about rice, and all the different staples. And I think, Dr. Jessica B. Harris, she said a lot of incredible things, but I think what she really is getting at is like through this food, we can find out more about things that really connects us and separates us. And that kind of thing shows throughout the food that is the communal table that we know who we are and how we're connected and, and particularly around Black food history, it's really incredible to see that journey. And the show takes you from Africa all the way to the States, and the ingredients that are used, that are celebrated, as you said, and that often, these days, it can be appropriated, and people make money and profit off of it. And I think by knowing the history, this is how we fight against that sense of colonization and racism by understanding, yeah, how it's meant to cook and who, who is, who's doing the cooking, and the history and the journey. So, this is an incredible show, so I definitely highly recommend everyone to watch it.
Celine 16:49
Yeah, totally. Yeah, it like, those people who are, those white chefs were making money off of like appropriated southern Black food like... that should go into reparations, like, why? It just like, makes me so mad to think about, you know, and this connects to how gentrification is like, a form of colonialism, right? It's like, coming into an existing, racialized neighborhood and then appropriating, in some cases, like the food of that marginalized group, and then making money off of it. It's just, it's all like, you know, that cycle of how power and race work, but like, it's enraging to me. Yes. Yeah. So it's like nothing, I mean, food is like, when, it's like it shows, I think, food shows that nothing is neutral. You know, like, so much of it is embedded in these histories of both resistance and of subjugation and oppression.
Trixie 17:39
Yeah, and, and just, I mean, on that, I really, I have been thinking a lot food as resistance. And as we're reclaiming back the food, that's a way to fight against, like, the dominant narrative of white supremacy and racism, and to really then celebrate, like, what is truly rooted in its culture and know where is Black culture, black history, and the food. And today is *, actually. So it's actually, as I'm learning more, it is incredible to be able to celebrate the connection between food and history. And that's something you know, on my own, and that I'm trying to learn more about Taiwanese history and Taiwanese culture through the food journey of understanding, yeah, what is Taiwanese food, and that is a, is a way for me to kind of reclaim my own identity in this process. But I've also seen how, kind of as an example, when you talked about gentrification in Chinatown, which I'm sure we can go into how food is appropriated. And in terms of like, trending food, like you know, even like kimchi, I think I get really upset. Especially when it's like, restaurant, that's like white chef, and just taking something without really honoring its history, the food process ingredients, and the connection back to like Korean culture, it's, it's such an important food. And I see this a lot, actually, particularly when I walk around Chinatown, as it continues to be more gentrified, and, you know, a lot of the restaurant, particularly this year, and during the pandemic, actually, sadly, a lot of particularly Chinese, Asian restaurants also have, have closed. And so that's something that makes me think in terms of, again, connection to when we think about racism in food. Yeah, all the Chinese restaurants really, when the pandemic started, people stopped going to it. And there's a lot of you know, especially in Vancouver with the rise of anti-, anti-Asian hate and racism, that is also showing up in how we treat the food and how we view food. So yeah, well, what do you think? I mean, there's so many things, as I walked to *, I see how this is both food to celebrate but also food that is appropriated. Where are your thoughts around that?
Celine 20:02
Yeah, I mean, I have a lot of thoughts around gentrification in Chinatown, which I maybe won't go into completely in this episode. And I've written about it in other places as well. But maybe I'll focus more on the food as resistance part because I think that is, like you said, something, a lesson, a really beautiful, important sustaining lesson, I think, from the African-American struggle, like from the Black resistance struggle, and both in the States and Canada like, or what we call Canada, about food as resistance, and also food as.... I'm gonna use the phrase that I learned from Amber * who's a somatics, like, decolonial, somatics practitioner, about food as a spiritual technology. And she was talking about singing, actually, in the Black tradition, and how singing is a spiritual technology that actually becomes, allows your body to become more resilient. And when she was leading this session, she was talking about how that is an embodied practice of resistance, and it goes so far back, right? And I think food is similar, it's also an embodied practice of practicing to become more resilient, practicing to resist and to survive and to create a different kind of world, like within the community that is being marginalized. And of course, our contexts are different. But I think it's like, we can look to that tradition and lineage of resistance and, I think apply it in some ways, in terms of like, what lessons can we take to Chinatown and to like, you know, diasporic agents now who, for whom I think food is a way to connect to our ancestry, to connect our ancestors, to connect to ways of being community with one another and with our elders. And I think there is like some examples, there's, I know, there's dimsum, like outdoor dim sum, like you were saying, Trixie, in parking lots?
Trixie 21:50
Yeah.
Celine 21:51
And I saw, like earlier in the pandemic, like you were saying, when a lot of people stopped going to Chinatown, even though people in Chinatown like, are completely different from people returning from places in China, where the virus came from. There was just that racist association with a lot of the restaurants or with the food itself. There was someone in Toronto called Jupiter who's a, like, urban, oh, you know, you know, you know her? Yeah, like an urban placemaker. Kind of like, I don't know, like, not an architect, but like, involved in urban planning and city design and how we can make more, just, spaces and planning for cities. And she like led walking tours through Toronto's Chinatown and was kind of like, yeah, formulating these really beautiful ways that we could practice like solidarity, practice reclamation, practice support for those restaurants. Yeah. And then even in Vancouver, like, I think they were dying out, like when it was still possible to eat before the pandemic had really fully hit us, like when it was still possible to eat at these places together. Like people were doing that together, as well, like planning to go and visit particular restaurants so that their businesses would survive. So yeah, so I think food is really... food and our tradition, and the tradition that we are part of, and the traditions that we choose to partake in, sustains us like physically, spiritually, it sustains our resistance to gentrification, colonialism, and white supremacy; it is also what feeds us in so many ways. Yeah. It feeds our resistance, it sustains us and it makes it more enjoyable, right? Like, and sharing these tables together and practicing these forms of resistance, we are, I can't remember who said this, you know, making the revolution irresistible? We are partaking in something joyful, and creating this kind of alternative world.
Trixie 23:42
Yeah, I, you know, just as you were talking, another thing that popped into my mind as an expression of resistance is solidarity, right? And I think this is why I feel really passionate about the power of food, that it can really break down those barriers, you know, whether it's like language, cultural, socio-economic barriers, it really has the power to, as a resistance, form of resistance, bring people from all different cultures together, and to do it in a way that is healing. And that's, you know, that is be able to really express our care for each other. And, and I think at a time where, you know, a lot of groups are, racialized groups are perhaps pitted against each other, this is where food, again, can bring us together to do, to nourish us to continue doing the work fighting against racism. And yeah, I think some of my rich conversations this past year, particularly thinking deeper around like food as resistance, is having this dialogue around food and race and power. And last summer, as part of the work we're doing to Flavors of Hope, which is a non-profit social enterprise, I started as a way to, you know, envision this society where newcomer refugee women can really flourish through food and cooking and storytelling and entrepreneurship. One of the things that we, during the pandemic that I, that kind of touches on what we just talked about, is really looking at the connection between food and race. And so we did a series, online virtual series, to have these kinds of conversation with people, really brought people together to think about food as this connection to ancestor history, to our knowledge to, and then looking at cultural appropriation of food. It just brought out so many powerful and honest dialogue between different groups of people. And, in particularly, especially with newcomers, it's, it's really incredible to see the connecting points of how food as a way to express who they are and their voice and also for them to show care to each other. But then also showing that there's power dynamic when it comes to food, and how we, yeah, how we view through this use within different community, or the lack of food, like we talked about food insecurity also, and kind of power and privilege around that piece. So I, yeah, I'm grateful for even during this pandemic time that we can open, really, gathering around virtual table to talk about food as a way to give us back our own power, right, how we can have our own voice and to really dig deeper into honoring cultural food. So that was something really yeah, I feel really grateful for the opportunity, and that we continue to do. I know, Celine, that, you know, we've been working together this past year also around dream cuisine, which is a newcomer woman food business pilot program. And that is a way I feel like, again, using food as a way for women to be able to earn a livable income, to be able to feed their family, to be able to build a sense of belonging, and reclaiming who they are, as they build a community here. And it's through this program, I think, I've learned so much from you and the women that we have worked with, and our mentors, and our leadership, about how food really has the power to unite us, and connects us but also has the power to challenge the status quo. And a lot of work we do is through like equity, making things more equitable and accessible in the food industry. Anyway, there's so much more I wanted to talk about this, but it's just making all these connection points for me and the work that we're doing.
Celine 27:24
Yeah. I've learned a lot from these women. I mean, I was thinking too, about, one of them, is from Egypt, like she was saying, she didn't, actually I think all of them have voiced this in some way. Like, they became more proud of their culture and their, where they come from, when they actually came here. Like when they were kind of, in this new environment, in this new place where there's this dominant culture, and they, you know, there's pressure to assimilate in some ways, especially like with language, and how they became more like connected to and proud of and like wanting to make their cultural ancestral foods once they came to Canada, or what we call Canada. So there's really that reclamation that happens. And also like, yeah, as a way too, food is a tool or toy for memory, like cultural memory. And so like, by cooking ancestral foods, or cooking cultural foods, and sharing that with others, it's a form of remembering, like, where we come from, the land that we came from, the food that our ancestors grew, all of those long, long, long, often ancient traditions. It's an embodied memory, I think, is to cook and to eat, which is why I think it's so... why gentrification is so, so harmful and so violent. This is kind of, something I go into a piece, we can link it, it's called, "Let Us Be Water: Grieving Gentrification in the Heart of the City"*. So I talk a bit more about this, if you're interested, if listeners are interested in reading more, but like gentrification is not just kind of this colonial way of retaking up seemingly unoccupied space or seemingly blank or empty or need to be revitalized space. It's also, kind of a violent rupturing of memory, like, of these memories that we have, and that we have, that us and our ancestors and other people, you know, chosen, chosen, and, like blood, like have carried and held and cultivated for so many years, to create a sense of community and belonging. So when you when that gets appropriated, when that gets displaced, you know, it's more than the food and the people and the, which are all important of course, it's also this, this memory that's being erased or trying to be erased. Yeah. And so I think if we're, if we're cooking and eating and sharing food as a form of resistance, as a way to embody memory, that makes it more powerful to me, right? It's not just like, we are resisting the status quo or the dominant culture that is trying to appropriate and trying to displace and harm, but we're also nourishing these memories and that makes us stronger, that makes us, like, that's all the ways that it continues to feed us.
Trixie 29:57
Mm hmm. I love that. So Celine when you say, in these embodied memories, and I think you know, that a lot of the women I have worked with, I learned a lot about who they are and where they're from and their homeland through this food that they're feeding us. I've, you know, over the years, I got some delicious Mexican food, Venezuelan food, Syrian food, Pakistani food, Egyptian food, as we just mentioned, and I think one of the things that I, as I continue to learn from them, like, when you're going through trauma, you know, through the journey of, refugee journey and migration and displacement, I think, again, this is where food is, has that power to bring you back to remember who you are. Because often, I think that is the hard piece, when you go through trauma, you forget who you are, where you come from. And if you're able to hold this memory and be able to cook, it connects you back, like you said, to your ancestor, to the generation, so reminds you to the land where you're from. Yeah, and that is just, that is so healing, that is so... interconnectedness that, I feel like these days, you know, often like, I feel like things can be so divisive or, or we are separated by, I feel like, again, this is where food can bring that power back too, remembering how we are interconnected and this is how we share knowledge with each other, is through the food, how we share the relationship is through the food. And that goes beyond like, you know, language. I think that was one of the things, language barriers. I have this memory of sitting, I used to work as a community dinner coordinator, where we would be cooking with neighbors in their community within the church every Wednesday night. And we just welcome anyone to that door to cook with us and then to eat with us. And one of the things that, in terms of my memory, that really I held on to is, I would remember cooking with these two Kurdish women, and I don't speak any Kurdish, and Google Translate also was not helpful. So trying to figure out what we're, I didn't even know what we were cooking. Basically, I was just like following along with what they were doing. And basically, we were stuffing, actually, collard greens with like rice. And it's kind of like a form of * and meat and spices and, and through this process, I felt like I was just learning from them, wrapping the rice in these colored leaves and just... yeah, being there was, was, was a way for me to be with them, to be able to like, I think, a lot of that time, I think, we cook for almost two hours, and we were cooking for, about, food for 80 people. And at the end of that there was just a lot of emotions also, because the women, they were so happy to be able to give back to the community, to be able to celebrate and be able to share a part of who they are. Because, you know, even though language, English language, was a challenge for them, they know how to show love and care, is that, is that through food. And so I just remember, like, after we were done, and I was you know, introducing the food and thanking them, and they were just so happy. I can still remember that moment of just like tears of joy and that they were so happy to be able to share who they are with, with all the neighbors. And, and I just remember, after the dinner, one of the women, she just gave me like the biggest, longest hug because it has been a really, really tough time for her settling into, into Vancouver. And she looked at me and she cried. And actually she, I think she said, she's, she looked at me, she's like, "I love you", like I, you know and, and that was so powerful, because like, as some of the few English words she knows. And it's through that food, of cooking together, of being together with her that, that we were able to, I felt like I was able to feel her pain, I was able to feel her joy. So that memory is kind of what sticks to me. I think these days sometimes when I think about why we do what we do, you know, especially through Flavors of Hope, why we bring women together, this kind of moments, of memories, what we need to hold on to as we continue to build bridges between culture, as we continue to bring people together in a communal table and essentially break bread.
Celine 34:21
Yeah, I was gonna say it's this communion, right? It's like, to me, when I would go regularly to the community mill like, not the same one, different one. You know, it'd be such a hodgepodge of people, such a motley group of folks, some were homeless, somewhere, some would come from like, not even in the neighborhood, they like just knew the meal and they would come because they knew it was like a place where people would actually talk to each other and like share stories and you know, people from all kinds of socio-economic, from different cultural and racial backgrounds, like, would show up to this meal. And it was kind of chaotic and like, I'm sure, similarities to the one that you ran. But like eating together and kind of these funny moments, these quirky moments, sometimes kids running around like, in the kind of chaos and the love and the care like that, to me felt much more like church than a lot of church services, right, like this kind of messy abundance of being, of eating together. Yeah. Which to me is, like these are sacred spaces. And we have such a like, as people in the Christian tradition, I think that is part of our like, that is part of our spiritual, spiritual and faithful kind of calling, is to be able to create these spaces of, these tables, these roundtables have welcomed, these roundtables where people are, people from the margins who like, to use biblical language, who would be like the last to see it, or the ** end at the table, whatever the words that Jesus uses, I can't remember the exact verse. But you know, are put in places of honor, where everyone is given a place to eat together, to belong together, to belong to one another. So to me, it's a very spiritual kind of call and spiritual practice as well.
Trixie 36:04
Yeah, I mean, just when you say that too, that's, I think really how I felt, like that Wednesday night, the messiness, the noise, the running around... it's, that felt like church, and to see, kind of, across the room, you know, with 80 people, it's to see the intergeneration, you know? That's what it calls, it means, to, for us, particularly to, at least, when Jesus says "love your neighbor", I'm like, this is what it means! This is why it looks like, in the messiness, in there, around the table, eating together. And for me, that is, yeah, that is some of the strongest sense of expression, I mean, of communion, of being together. And so I think, our faith, chance to reiterate what you say it is, like, I feel like a faithful calling, to feed people, to eat together with people, and that simplest form is like the deepest way of how we show love to each other.
Celine 37:00
So as we kind of wrap up this first conversation around food, there's so much to talk about with food, like, it could probably be its own podcast, just about food. But, yeah, we'll leave it to kind of percolate, stew with listeners, but there's some other things that we will, we are excited to kind of explore in more detail in further conversations. And we definitely want to talk about food connected to land and decolonization, different food sovereignty, what what does food sovereignty mean? Which Laurie, our previous guest, did talk a little bit about, but it would be great to explore more of that and talk to more amazing folks who are doing that work. We didn't even really talk about food systems, so we might do a separate one about that, in terms of these larger, how do we divest and decolonize from these larger industrial capitalist food systems? Well, and in community in collaboration with one another, and also without moralizing or judging, you know, folks who were, who cannot do that in the same ways that we can. Trixie, do you have any to add that we want to kind of go in further detail later?
Trixie 38:03
No, I think you said it all. I think it's a topic that, you know, can go from personal to systemic. And I think that's the part that I would love to explore more about, the systems, as you mentioned, and how that is connected to our everyday life. And so as we continue, for me this role around food justice, these are the questions that we want to ask, these are the question- particularly, I would love to talk about this over some food, over, over some dim sum. And I think this is really important as we continue to decolonize our language ourselves, that food is an essential part of this, both for resisting but also for celebrating. So I'm really excited to talk more about this and also have Maria join us next time with her voice! And so, this is definitely a conversation where I'm excited to continue and to be able to, yeah, keep bringing, bring back to how do we nourish ourselves, each other, our bodies and our memories. So stay tuned for future episodes on this.
Celine 39:06
Yeah, and one more, maybe I'll leave as a final note, for listeners. And for us too, like, just as a practice, like a physical, embodied way to respond to this episode is maybe connect to an ancestral food, like find something in your own ancestral history, and make it and, and kind of like really take the time to enjoy it and the process and like eating it and sharing it with whoever you're able to share it with, which right now might not be that many people, maybe it's just you and that's okay, too. But just practicing that as a form of recommission of, of decolonization, of reconnection. I think, like white supremacy hurts everyone, right, including white people. And I think it really, it's about, compartmentalizing and disconnecting those, those histories. So whoever and wherever you are, like connecting to your ancestral food is a really beautiful and reclaiming act that we encourage, if you're able to do so.
Trixie 40:02
Thank you so much, Celine. Now I want to make some like beef noodle soup and even more dumplings... But yeah, thank you for that challenge and that call for us to, yeah, to reclaim who we are and what we eat. It's connected, it's all connected!
Maria 40:25
Resetting The Table is produced by Emma Renner, and the intro music is by Sunia and Paul Gibbs. If you like what this podcast is about, consider supporting us on patreon at patreon.com/resettingthetable. We think it's really important to amplify voices of color and we hope you do too! Even a little bit will help us sustain and grow the podcast. For now, do xia!
Trixie 41:03
Xie xie!
Celine 41:04
Thanks, and see you soon.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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