Celine
Hey listeners, Celine here. Before we get into today's episode, I wanted to share a few words of introduction. Today's conversation with the brilliant Silver Stephens is about body sovereignty, which we will expand on throughout the episode, decriminalization and sex work. If you've been following previous episodes, you'll know the Atlanta massacre has been heavy on our hearts. And we've been holding grief, love and rage for the victims, their families and our Asian kin. We also want to honor these women's experiences in their entirety. And that includes the fact that their association with sex work was a key factor in how vulnerable they were to white supremacist and patriarchal violence. For us, it's important to center the voices of Indigenous women, families and Two Spirit people when talking about sex work. Because indigenous sex workers bear the brunt of white supremacist, colonial patriarchal violence and lead the way in embodying radical decolonial resistance. Solidarity means amplifying their voices in this conversation. Silver shares a story of what they call the hoe-archy. an indigenous sex workers passing as Asian to gain increased degrees of safety and often unsafe work. We also remember that where we are on Musqueum Squamish and Tsleil Wauthuth territory, indigenous women and elders started the woman's Memorial march for the missing and murdered, many of whom are survival sex workers in the downtown Eastside before their murders and disappearances were noticed or named by those in power. One more note, if you're new to this kind of conversation, some of what we discuss might be uncomfortable for you. As always, we invite you to sit with discomfort and to recognize when you need to hit pause and come back later. Take care of yourself. This episode will still be here when you're ready to listen. Learn and grow. (intro music) Hey, everyone, and welcome to resetting the table, expanding imagination around race, place and faith for our collective liberation. I'm Celine Chuang.
Trixie
I'm Trixie Ling
Maria
and I'm Maria Mulder. We host this podcast from traditional ancestral unceded Musqueam. Squamish and Tsleil Wauthuth territory, otherwise known as Vancouver, Canada. Acknowledging the land is one way we want to commit to decolonization and to begin each episode in a good way, expressing solidarity with the indigenous struggle for rights, reparations and sovereignty.
Celine
Today, we're talking with my good friend Silver Stevens about decriminalization and body sovereignty. Silver is an indige-queer Two Spirit parent, a beader, former sex worker, and sex worker advocate, and also one of my favorite people. I'm so honored and thrilled to beam out their brilliance through our podcast and share a conversation with you. Hey, silver, welcome to the show.
Silver
Hey,
Celine
I really feel like we're in person like we're at a table or maybe we're outside in my head.
Silver
Yeah.
Celine
Flowers and the blooming blooming cherry blossoms. Yeah, I'm so excited. I'm so excited to have you join us on this. You were one of the first people I thought of actually, when we started a podcast. When we were all thinking about people we'd want to bring in and have their voices shared, like I immediately thought of you. So this is like a little bit of a, you know, manifested dream come true to have you join us. I'm really honored. And yeah, I would love for folks to get to know you who who don't. So the first question we tend to ask our guests is, who do you come as today to this conversation? And how do you arrive?
Silver
I come today filled with your gracious words, filled with gratitude and humbled very much so. Yeah, all of the thoughts, you know, I have a lot going on in my mind. So I'm excited to just see where this conversation goes. And really, and I'm so happy to meet all of you and get to see your beautiful faces and smiles and connect in this way. This new modern way.
Celine
This new normal way of doing things doing podcasts.
Silver
Yeah.
Celine
Yeah, I can really sense right now even. I mean, this will eventually be an audio format. But really sense the connection and the love between people through the ethereal strands of you know, the internet and like the things that connect us that might not be visible, but we are we can we can definitely feel that in this online zoom space. Yeah, so I'm really I'm so excited. I think some of this conversation that like we've talked a lot about this stuff, just like in our own time and our friendship, but it might be a lot of it might be new to folks. So I thought I thought maybe we'll start with the idea of, of sovereignty. As a whole indigenous sovereignty, and we can start with maybe land because I feel like that's where it always starts. We mentioned sovereignty in our intro. And I think that was important because it's not about kind of, you know, sharing how I feel about this. For me, solidarity is not about state discourses of reconciliation, which are asymmetric. They are not. They often reconciliation is so much of a facade in terms of how it's used. It's actually about asserting indigenous sovereignty over land over resources, over bodies, which often is against, well, not just often it is against right the state, then the country of Canada. And so I think when I was thinking when we were thinking about this intro, like, just thinking about sovereignty as a way to de-center, like the state discourse of indigenous rights or of reconciliation, and rather say, like, No, we want to support and be in solidarity with actually, indigenous resurgence as Leanne Simpson calls it indigenous people asserting their sovereignty and their dignity and their governance on their own terms. So maybe d0 you want to talk about sovereignty, like what does that mean to you as a whole, or as a word?
Silver
To be sovereign to be connected in kinship with basically like minded individuals and collectively striving for unity and autonomy, really, I just, I'm Silver, it's so nice to be here. And I'm really excited to get talking about what sovereignty means to me in regards of like my own body, and then land as a body as well, like conceptualizing that, that ideology of, of land, as a body. And it is, you know, we extract resources from it, it sustains us in a way that is valuable, and it can be spiritual. I don't know how to really articulate it right at this moment.
Celine
I love what you're saying. Because I think, like lot, sometimes we think of them as separate, right? Us raised in a Western colonial mindset, think of like, yeah, land, in a disembodied way. Just as, as we're all also disembodied, by, you know, a colonial mindset, like land is actually relationship, just as we are. And I've learned so much about this from not just Leanne Simpson, but like Robin Wall Kimmerer to where, you know, she talks about the plant nations or plant people, and the tree people and tree nations, like, the idea of nationhood is not about borders, about ownership, but rather about relationship and a history of those relationships and a network of those relationships. And so, thinking about that sense of nationhood, I think that's what I understand sovereignty to be at the settlers, like, over bodies and land, it's actually a return, right, it's like a return to those practices, those embodied practices of being in relationship with land and with each other,
Silver
I wanted to continue on on yet talking about sovereignty to to land in my body in its radical like, to love yourself is so radical of an act, because of the systems of oppression that we live in as non white people, like when we are not in this spectrum of whiteness, the further we get away from that, like, it's about like homogenizing ourselves to get closest to that spectrum. And like when you love yourself so fiercely, that you're not trying to adhere to those beauty standards, and you're not trying to, you know, get closer to those in a way that when you're being yourself, it's it's also a choice to like, recognize your privilege as well, when it comes to uplifting movements of sovereignty, my sovereignty to my land is it's, it dates so far back, like, if I talk about it, I get so emotional, thinking about my home, like it's, you know, I look at parts of the landscape. And these stories that are attached to it, these legends that are attached to it, but are unbroken, because the landmark the natural landmarks still exists. And to know that my ancestors were there and to know that, you know, they are buried there in ceremony and just being able to practice the culture that was so overtly taken, you know, there was Potlatch ban, and the fact that I get to sit in a feast Hall you know, in a longhouse type setting, and still practice my culture today. Like that is just fierce radical love for self you know, of not adhering to Colonial societal, oppressive systems, and like Seeing the privilege when you can keep sovereignty to land by using spaces like churches, and you know, to continue practicing and going underground with that, and having spiritual spaces like that, you know, having allies who actually allow you to, to go and take Potlatch underground. And that is, you know, some stories I've heard of how we were able to retain a lot of our practices today is, like, it's very, very, it's powerful. And like, you have to, you know, when there's when there's space for a privilege and sovereignty, like and recognizing that it can be so monumental in regards of like, the ripple of the future that it can have, I think,
Celine
yeah, yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. So sovereignty is also it's like, a, it's not like an end goal. Like it. I think people think of it like that. Sometimes. It's like a constant, practicing a constant embodying a constant survival and resistance.
Silver
It's generational. Yeah, generational, you know, like generational passed on by cultural teachings, you know, we can be sovereign to anywhere that we're from. And like you said, it's not pertaining in particular, so much like that you have to be on that land to be sovereign to it, you can be sovereign because of the connection to the community, to like, the history, that history of like your ancestors, constantly being born to that land, and like, my daughter isn't being raised on the land like I was, but she's going to know the history of the stories of those landmarks, you know, and she'll be able to continue to tell them, and I think, you know, she is in this unique category of being in diaspora away from her community because of oppressive systems that come into play when it comes to living in colonial society.
Celine
Yeah, yeah. And that's, I think another like, such an important thing to say out loud is like, there might be a misconception, I think it's like, on purpose, that colonization or colonialism is a thing of the past, when really, it is an active agent, and disempowering, and, and dispossessing indigenous people, right of their land resources, agency over bodies, displacing them from their traditional territories, and all of the all of the things that come with that, right, it's, it's like an ongoing struggle to embody what you're saying of this radical self love, and this radical sovereignty, against colonialism, which like white supremacy is so much it's so insidious, and so much part of what we consider normal, perhaps us who are settlers, or who are raised in like a settler colonial mindset, or histories, or all the things, ways that we learn what the world is, and remembering to like that, you know, colonialism is a way to... what colonialism tries to do as a race, memory and relationship. And that's why you said like, the Potlatch was banned, and like, all these other ceremonies are banned, because that was a way of taking, like breaking those relationships, and then disempowering and taking land, right? It was like all connected. And so you doing those things, and other people like that is an active way. It is an active way of radically resisting colonialism. And it is a frontline, it's not just like, you know, the frontlines are where people are defending the land from extractive industry, from corporate greed, from the government, you know, from pipelines, whatever, whatever the latest project is, those are frontlines, but also frontlines are like people's bodies, like your body is a frontline and you embodying sovereignty, the way you just spoke about it. That is a frontline struggle. You know, so I think that is, I think so important to say like, that you are a place of power and you embodying your sovereign power is his radical resistance.
Silver
Yes. Thank you so much for those kind and filling words and just saying that out loud because it's hard sometimes to articulate. Yeah, just the feeling of just being in the space of being sovereign and being autonomous, like to self autonomy to self is really important as well. And having autonomy and agency over over your body is it comes with being radically loving of yourself and who you are and the history of your ancestors and even going from, you know, not just the culture of like culture of Gitxsan ancestral history, but we have urban Indians here, like urban Indians and unceded coast, Salish territory from everywhere, there's the diaspora of children, you know who everywhere from the 60s scoop to just young moms who are trying to get away from the stigma of sludge shaming of predatory behaviors that were perpetuated, and having labels being placed on on them, you know, by patriarchal society of this, like, this constant struggle of like you have to be chased. But you have like, as in, not give yourself to people, but you also have to give yourself to people in order to make it in the world to like, advance in certain aspects, you know, give more of yourself or put a mask on or present yourself in a certain way. We all do that in all aspects, I think of our lives as human beings to advance like, we want more responsibility in a workplace, you know, you're going to present yourself a certain way to your boss and make certain skills shine, right? So it's like that we do that trade that all the time as human beings,
Celine
what you're saying is such a good path into, you know more extensive conversations around body sovereignty and decriminalization, I think because I was noticing after the Atlanta tragedy, like, at the beginning, there wasn't a lot of nuanced writing or thought pieces or engagement, just on social media, like whatever, these women as the victims as being sex workers or associated with sex work, and like how that that part of them like made them so much more susceptible to violence. And like, you can't really separate that either from race, right, like the fact that they were fetishized and they were associated with sex work was what made them so vulnerable to white supremacist, patriarchal violence, nationalists, Christian nationalists, like all those things. But I think later on I started to see more, which is exciting. Like you're like, Yeah, actually talk to you know, the sex work advocate, sex worker led organizations, right, that are talking about what you something that you have kind of reminded me of a lot of rights, not rescue, you know, of agency and autonomy, and like people are actually I think, I hope having more conversations about decriminalization again, do you want to talk about decriminalization, just in your own words, or how you
Silver
Yeah, rights, not rescue and decriminalization, like how that would look, for me as an indigenous single parent Two-Spirit queer, who's already at a high high risk for violence, you know, just as you said, with this complex relationship to sex work as presenting as an Asian, because different levels of the industry, there is a hoe-archy just like a caste system when it comes to the work and in certain spaces, you know, admitting and saying that you're indigenous isn't a moneymaker. And that's the honest truth. Like when you're working in a certain level in sex work, it just, you get way more violence as in regards of like being ripped off and not being paid when you're presenting as an indigenous person. And so what is the step up is the closest is being Asian of some, you know, melting pot sort, which is perpetuating this understanding of what Asian or pan Asian identity is, is like putting into this melt pot again, because there is no distinct marker of that. And, and it's when we talk about, like, how decriminalization would benefit for safety reasons, when we talk about Bedford and the Bedford case in regards of body houses, like talking about the work of doing it, and the actual, like, frontline work meeting a person, like another human being, and being a service provider for them, there's so many aspects that go into that and so much for safety that goes into that, that requires like having community and having like openness about what you're doing, and having people being understanding of that and not, you know, stigmatizing you. And like when you're making it a criminal act, people are not more inclined to help you like, you know, so then you're reduced, you're reduced to using other services or other spaces or other means to like still need to access resource money. You know, just like everything else. And if we decriminalize sex work, you know, then we can really start doing the work of like destigmatizing sex work that will come next after it because we really need to do that just as we see the movement with marijuana like we made it legal. And you know, now that work around stigmatizing it, it's more acceptable because more folks are smoking it and more spaces and it's just openly out there. And, you know, stigma is starting to come away from like what potheads are and we've come a long way from where that has been, or potheads. But it's the same thing that has to come with sex work, right like we have to decriminalize it so that we can begin that work of destigmatizing it. So we could talk about it in a meaningful way that it is work, just like any other trade for to get a resource, it's work, you know, our resource just happens to be primarily male cis-presenting men. We extract resources out of them of money in exchange for service. And it's, that's what it is, and like, just like anything else, so the work of sex work, even in itself isn't just sex. Like, it's actually so much more, it's a lot of serving people who are just really lonely and disconnected who needs you know, actual, just space to be heard, you know, space not to be judged, like, because they have been taught about sexual deviancy or like acts as being sexually deviant. You know, there's a lot of safety in that when you could explore sexuality in a safe way with somebody who's not going to judge you who actually knows how to be safe through the whole process. With You know, when we you're regarding like, fluids, when you regarding even emotional safety. Somebody who's an expert in that, who knows how to read someone, the moment they walk in is not really going to, it is a manipulator like a manipulative kind of trait to have in a way like it can be used very negatively to be somebody who could read a person as soon as they walk in, and you can use it in horrible ways. You know, but that comes to the term and the topic of choice, you know, and how spirituality leads me in every aspect of my life, you know, and I have a choice to be like deviant, and I have a choice to be, like, really view my work as work and value it and value it for what I could offer people, you know, and human connection. And once we decriminalize, we offer space to destigmatize and offer education around this and have people like me being more open to like talking about their experience, in what sex work looks like. So then we could start really like taking apart what sex work looks like, and then what sex trafficking is, because they are very different. Sex trafficking and sex work are not the same. And we have people who are lobbying and trying to, like lobby and say that decriminalizing sex work is actually going to increase sex trafficking. No, like, education around and having people like myself, who have lived experience who are choosing to do the work, and then share their experience with others around that is going to create a space of community and humanize me as a person, like and help me to connect easier with others. You know, once we destigmatize and educate then it opens the doors for claiming, you know, income, and doing taxes and contributing to economy, there's so many things that I could advocate for, like decriminalizing this work. If we could file our taxes, you know, then we could be more eligible for childcare subsidies when we have more childcare subsidies like it's already as somebody who does this work, like I had to rely so heavily on other folks for childcare safety, you know, because doing the work again, here with the laws that we're under, they aren't clear. Yeah, they're like, within this many meters of a school, or there's none of that. It's like it just says, it's not clear everything is loophole-ee, when it comes to policy around sex work.
Celine
Yes.
Maria
And it sounds like ultimately, my understanding with people who are kind of pushing for the continued criminalization of sex work is one of the tokens that they use in their conversations is like community safety, safety this, safety that, where ultimately, decriminalization will lead to stronger communities, which will lead to safer communities and safer interactions.
Celine
Yeah, right. Yes. Yes. So criminalization is like a carceral form of what people call safety, right? It's like prisons and police. It's a way of using state power to control what people can and can't do and, and like you said, Maria, like there are a lot of Yeah, like, I mean, there's a word SWERF right. And like the feminist or like, I don't even know what to call it social justice like peeps, circles, where it's like people who are sex work exclusionary, or is that way to sex worker or sex work, exclusionary feminists? Yeah, radical feminists, so called radical feminists where really like feminism is kind of used as a vehicle to bring in or to lobby for more criminalization, which I would say again, is like a carceral form of controlling like people and bodies and space under the guise of kind of like saying that they're against trafficking or often they use kind of language around Yeah, rescue, like, there's a lot of white woman savior complex stuff going on there, I think too, but kind of it's in the end, if you kind of look at the conversations and like the people who are in those places, what I find is like people who are pushing for those policies of criminalization, I mean, sometimes there's maybe a sex worker that has been kind of taken in or tokenized, in a way, but often they are speaking for sex workers, they're not actually speaking to and speaking with what sex workers are saying, like, and what what I've heard, like from you Silver, and for others, it's like, we need safe working conditions. Like we need the ability to have community to support us to have childcare to access basic resources. So like, we got to listen, that's like the basics of anti oppression, right? Like, listen to the people who are affected by something.
Silver
Yes. And having those, like having community again, like it comes back to community care and connection in regards of, like having safety and having housing and having like a safe space to do work, or closing all the body houses was just, we saw disproportionate that numbers of folks, you know, moving into more unsafe working conditions after that. After that, the, you know, law passed. And it's, yeah, just the safety of, it's so. So there's these amazing organizations here in Vancouver, for instance, like Pace Society, and I was very fortunate to be able to work with them, alongside a couple of amazing folks like Sherry, and in the Occupational Health and Safety Program that they offered. And basically, taking the approach of not focusing on exiting out of the work, you know, really validates the work as work, you know, it's a work of, again, radically just accepting and appreciating any type of like seeing where your privilege is and when I'm, when I think about sex work, and all the privileges that it's taught me to like that I've recognized where my privilege is and where I can use it in regards of just having less barriers to access, because that's all privilege is, like, it doesn't mean I get a lesser rough ride, or I don't get to, you know, I'm escaped from oppression or violence, it's a lot of the time, it just means I have less barriers to get to the end goal. And I don't have to experience as much violence and oppressive systems. And the industry itself has offered so much in that regard, you know, like having wealth is a privilege having like, solid security of income having cash paid, instead of waiting for a two week paycheck, you know, when you're a person who's living in near poverty all the time, and you need to buy food on a daily, or bi-daily basis, you need to have cash like immediate, you can't be waiting for a paycheck, because, you know, you're raised in this state of oppression and reliance on the system. And therefore, like you're put out into the world, with just those skills of like reliance on a system. So you don't really have the skills, when you're out there to even manage like, long term payment of finances and, you know, all of these things attribute to again, community care and how we could uplift and like, really do small acts to support and help sex workers just in general, these small things, these small little acts like helping with taxes, helping you know, offering for childcare, these, it's tough going as it is already, because you're doing all of this labor of like actually doing the work to sustain yourself because you have to and live in society and pay bills and stuff. So you have to like get work, but you're also expected to like, make all of these basic needs be met for your child. But you're if you go out and get just a regular job, when you're coming straight out of reserve with high school education, the likelihood of getting $25 or more is just so low, like it's it's non existent. The work of doing sex work allows you a large amount of money in a short amount of time. Therefore you have more time with your children. You know, you can invest more in that. But there needs to be more mentorship in that regard around like just navigating regular everyday life that folks take for granted. When you're a sex worker. A lot of the time you're from marginalized community because of oppressive systems like poverty and housing, you know, these things are just your immediate needs have to be met. And you need money immediately and like what resources do you have? If not for, you know, doing even further criminal acts like do you want to rip people off or, you know, do you have a resource so then I How does it happen that jump from stigmatized identity as an indigenous woman already being stigmatized as exotic and sexual living in the world, and just then therefore partaking in so called promiscuity, then you need your needs met, it's just an easy transition to just like, look at your life and be like, you know, I'm in pretty much poverty, and I'm pretty much labeled, like, a hoe anyway, or promiscuous or easy anyway, I may as well just get some money out of it.
Celine
Right, right.
Celine
Yeah, I mean, you're kind of tying this in right to body sovereignty in a way where you're like, this is actually a way for me to assert, you know, the agency and the autonomy that I do have.
Silver
Yeah, recognizing, like, where my privilege lied, recognizing, like, you know, what, I'm already going to be labeled this anyway, I'm just going to embrace this identity, but I'm actually going to make a profit from it, because I need to survive this oppressive system. It comes from that, that point of view, and a lot of ways and it started out that way. But the work became much greater than that. And like, being able to slide in the how-archy as I was talking about of like, from street based survival sex work up all the way into like escorting Sugar Baby, you know, trophy wife, there's a spectrum and to be able to like work in all that entire spectrum, from a young age of 19. until just a couple of years ago, it changed the way I viewed and like the how I wanted to use my platform, or my body or myself, to like, actually, collectively help folks that I've met along my journey, you know, and just trying to remember, like what they wanted and needed when we were in the struggle, and trying to like, go back in time and recollect those because I mean those are the voices I need to amplify, like my experience is pretty intense. But through the Occupational Health and Safety Program, like I've met some extremely resilient folks, you know, who work in street based economies. And, again, as it comes back to like body autonomy, it's a choice, but also sometimes oppressive systems push you into a choice that that's really all that there is in that moment. And so if that's if we're going to circle back to Jesus Christ, and like meeting where you're at, you know that that is like true harm reduction. And, and that is what I feel like is the work of Pace and not trying to do, you know, exiting careers, and just being like, you know, what, if this is where you're at right now, and this is, you know, what you're going to choose to do with your body and with yourself. I want you to be as safe as you can when you're doing it.
Celine
And that's totally, yeah, you're mentioning something that we I mean, you actually we haven't talked about yet on the recorded podcast episode. But yeah, you and I have talked about Jesus being a harm reduction, like activist essentially, right, like, but it totally ties in, because, you know, we think about the Christian stories of Jesus, meeting people and asking what they need. So he was never like, I'm going to save you, I'm going to rescue you from this illness or from this, you know, whatever this context is, like, he would say, what do you what do you want? What do you desire of me? Or like, how can I heal you? And there was really, this meeting people where they were in that moment. And that often would lead to further transformation. But that was like on the person, right? Like, it wasn't like he was going to force that on someone. Yeah. And so much of actually, I was reading this book that I'm trying to remember the name of it, I think it's called like, The Black Trans Prayer Book. I'll double check that, but there are some really powerful pieces in there. And one of the, one of the workers who's trans and a sex worker, which often intersects as well, like wrote this piece about how Jesus hung out with sex workers and like, Why don't people really talk about that? More like that? You know, she's just hung out. He treated them as people, he treated them as humans and like, in this in a context where like, yeah, they, there was a lot of stigma, like there kind of has always been under patriarchy, right? Because, like you said, sex work for women as a way of being seemingly deviant, right, like showing a sexual morality that's outside of patriarchal control in some way. So maybe that's a reason why there's always been stigma. I'm just thinking out loud, but yeah, he really do stigmatized, I think a lot of that and instead was like, I'm going to encounter people as people. And I think that's really what harm reduction is like, it's like, Who are the people and what do they need right now. It's kind of like setting aside agenda, setting aside ideology, and trying to like work past those things and be like, instead of going to listen to this person who's in front of me and who's experiencing oppression in some way, and I'm going to listen to what they need.
Maria
And it really is like, I feel like at the root of harm reduction and at the root of Jesus's actions there, there has to be a very clear understanding that every single person has agency over their own bodies and their own choices, and that those choices have to be respected. Yeah. Or like, what you were saying, Celine that having an agenda or going into a space with an agenda. It's no longer harm reduction, if that's what you're doing?
Celine
Yeah. And there's been so much of that shit, right? That's been so much of like, nonprofit industrial complex, like, white savior complex, the rescue rather than the rights the like, organizations. It's imposing agendas, right? Like, no, we need to like, just listen to people. That's what they're doing. And it's not. So it seems maybe radical to some people. And it is radical in the sense that it's addressing the root of things and being relational, asserting sovereignty of serving, asserting what we talked about, like agency relationship, the ability to do those things. But it's also like a very old, ancient powerful way of being too, right. That's what I think is so beautiful about unlearning a lot of these ways of thinking and like relearning or reclaiming, for your ways of being in the world and ways to express solidarity, like, it's always some kind of return, you know, there's something we can return to.
Maria
So silver, a lot of what you've said, today has been so rich, and a question that has come up for me, because I actually don't know a lot about this subject is kind of what can we do? Or where can we go? as allies as white listeners? You know, whoever we are? Where can we go for more information? Or to learn more? Yeah. Are there any local organizations that we can support in this work?
Silver
Yeah, so the first organization that I definitely recommend to check out is Pace Society. So they have a couple of pretty rad programs such as Occupational Health and Safety that they offer. And that is a 10 week program that they offer to folks on a volunteer basis, they have a few food security program there, and also a cultural talking circle there. And then they have an outreach program where they have a couple of peer advocates go out and meet the folks if they're actually in hospital, and provide visits with them. Currently, I'm not sure that that is actually allowed because of COVID. But that is a part of the many programs that Pace offers. So you could go to pacesociety.org. And check them out, I highly recommend that you donate to them in cash value if you have high socioeconomic status, because the money is like the resources are so tight there. It's a past work environment for myself. And they have helped me so much as a past worker, but then as well to actually work for them. They just they have horizontal leadership there, I just highly, so much positive things to say about pace society as a whole. And then the second would be Swan, that's also here in Vancouver. And that's for transient or migrant workers, sex workers, where there's a couple of different ways that you can support. The biggest is that there needs to be translators in various different languages, everything from Cantonese to Mandarin. So if you speak any languages like that, and you're able to translate, that's a great place to start to do some research and connect. And I think the best way that any ally can really like support and get more education is just to find out and trust that there's probably a sex worker in your life connected to you somehow, through at least, you know, the power of six. I truly believe that because it's such a diverse industry, and especially now in the day and age of COVID. And everything's online, I've seen the hugest spike, and only fans and so forth. So online entertainments, like very real and so there's also you can educate by reading blogs. I'm sorry, I can't think off the top of my head.
Maria
That's okay. If you think of them afterwards, we can definitely link them for listeners.
Celine
Yes, and for people who aren't in our local context, like, look up, look up the people, the organizations, the grassroots groups who are doing kind of like harm reduction, decriminalization, sex worker led work in whatever community or city you're in. And like, yeah, I really encourage listeners to, to make to like sit with, you know, their own, their own, maybe prejudices, their own kind of ideologies that they've been taught and like I've done this kind of over the course of my life. being moved from like one political perspective to the other. But really think about like, yes, this mean maybe these politics these things mean something to me around sexuality around sex work, but also like the call to be relational meet people in relationship to love radically like these things being about people and really how encountering people and like, showing support and solidarity ally ship love like that I think is I think that really the highest call right and I think anyone can really take part in that, yeah, move into something bigger than themselves and away from, from the things that have been dominant in terms of narratives in terms of ways of thinking about sex work and sexuality. I'm, as usual blown away by your brilliance Silver and your just like, gentle fear badass, fire that you always carry with you. Do you want to like talk to our listeners about anything anywhere they can find you things that they can support that you're up to? I know, you have an amazing beading company and account. So like that is one thing I hope people you know, will look up. But yeah, you feel free.
Unknown Speaker
That's thank you for segwaying into the beaded bling world of of my life. Yeah, please support me @beadbling on Instagram, I have my link tree in there. So anything that I am involved with or that I am supporting and believe in is linked in there. It will continue to grow. Of course, your linked in there resetting the table podcast as well linked. But other works that I do. Yeah, please support in direct ways to sex workers, especially two spirit, gender non binary, and people of color, in particular. And moreover, trans folks, if you can give directly to their cash apps there, there will be I'll post some more links into my link tree for that. So if you're listening, and that's something that you're interested in doing, I'll definitely be linking some cash apps for other workers. But I do have linked in there, Swan, and Pace. So you can donate either with services or with cash donation. And my cash app is in there, you know, reparations for indigenous two spirit folks, you know, acknowledging not only the land, but acknowledging the fact that if this land weren't taken and stolen, that, you know, the, the salaries that we get paid wouldn't be made, right? They wouldn't exist. It all over like the entirety of where every piece of land that you're on it, it is definitely indigenous land. And we're not saying we want to own it and, and that, in that regard, if we're just stewards to it, which another podcast I heard in the past you guys spoke with, we're just stewards to it. It's just being kept for the future. But because it's being lent to all of us right now. And the fact that it is indigenous lands, definitely pay reparations to your indigenous people near and far. Because the salary that you make every day, you know, the water that you're drinking, the food that you're eating, it's all coming because you're occupying rich, resourceful land. So that's all I want to leave the listeners with is that very, you know, if it's unsettling you, sit with that unsettled feeling, it's uncomfortable, you can push through it. And at the end of that, you have a choice. God given as they say, a god given choice that you get to make with that, after you've sat through that uncomfortable unsettling feeling. You can make a choice with what you want to do with it. And you can thank God for that.
Trixie
Resetting the table is produced by Emma Renaerts and Intro music is by Sunia and Paul Gibbs. If you like this podcast, please consider supporting us on patreon patreon.com/resettingthetable. We think it's really important to amplify voices of color and we hope you do too. Even a little bit helps us sustain the podcast.
Maria
Big thanks to everyone who's already part of the Patreon community. We love you.
Celine
You can also leave us a voice message anchor.fm/resettingthetable. We love hearing from you. Here's one we received from Lynn that really lifted our spirits.
Lynn
Hi, my name is Lynn. I saw Trixie give her interview on the TV about the assault. And I just wanted to say thank you for all three of you for taking such a hard experience and then making something so beautiful out of it, which is this podcast talking about race and friendship. All these other wonderful topics as someone who lives in Vancouver and who's also an Asian woman. I truly appreciate what you're doing. Wishing all three of you all the best and you know, doing something so creative, so amazing. So, wishing you all the best and God bless. Take care
Maria
For now doxia.`
Trixie
Xie xie.
Celine
Thanks and see you soon.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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